Tyrone van leyen

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Posts by Tyrone van leyen

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  13

  Sin: A Desire for Knowledge?

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  eve desired wisdom and knowledge.

  the apple was symbolic of wisdom and knowledge.

  although it is sometimes said that the sin was "disobedience", why would the creator not wish for his creation to grow and mature?

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  Tyrone van leyen

  Yes Eve in the " STORY" had curiosity and to be denied knowledge was just a test.

  Obedience would have meant that Eve could be trusted with knowlege to do goood things. Disobedience would have meant a freewill to use knowledge in a way that lacks wisdom and could be used in a harmful and perhaps even selfish or evil manner.

  Knowing the difference between good and bad, before using knowledge was seen as essential in God's eyes.

  My only question is why didn't God just tell her the difference. That seems more like fair play. Setting it up as he did and allowing the serpent to fool her was entrapment.

  Yes she had free choice, but how about informing someone, instead of allowing them to be fooled before they make a decision. The whole crux of God's condemnation was evil because God was informed.

  If you allow someone to be fooled and then condem them, and their offspring, then God can suck my ass.

  If God is the beginning and the end he already knew the outcome, which makes everyone a pawn in his game!
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  19

  Coping With Witness Relatives Cult & Authentic Dual Personalities- Hassan

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many of us who have witness relatives have experienced them fading in and out of the cult personality to their real, authentic personality.

  it's like they are a totally different person.

  as steve hassan says in his book, " releasing the bonds ", " it is an eerie experience when, mid-conversation, you sense a different identity has assumed control.

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  Tyrone van leyen

  Hi cog!

  Yes, I agree that change is not impossible, but thinking and change is very difficult. Acceptence is difficult. Unless you put into practise and become a "cognizant dissident" it will not form chrystalized knowledge.

  I have always wanted a feeling of progression in my life. This includes relationships. It is the way we react to the pain that is teaching us. I beleive emotional growth cannot be attained without the pain which crystalizes the knowlegde.

  So again I say. How will some react to the pain? What bolt of cloth are you cut from? Will it teach you, or turn you into a monster? Are you strong enough? There's an old saying, " Out of Cathedrals have come monsters and from the gutters, saints. It just depends on your makeup.

  For the question of evil, you must remember that crime and sin are two different things. It is impossible to go through life and not hurt anyone. No ones is perfect and you can't please everyone. It is inevitable.

  If you had a freind and that person stole your rent money and then ran like coward when confronted and did this to other people as well, I don't consider that a human being. That is called a sociopath. They are incapable of feeling for others. They are also very clever, and realize that what they are doing is socially unacceptable, and so they mimic caring behaviour and learn how to act, only to get advantage of those with good intent. They get by without killing, but leave an unspeakable trail of damage to others only because they are clever enough to know how to not get caught.

  The next category of evil is the phychopath. Jails are full of them but they are on the streets too. These people arn't clever enough or don't care about the harm they inflict on others family included. They are more the violent types like Paul Bernardo who when asked why he did it replied, " Born a Bastard, Die a Bastard."

  I don't consider taking such people and inflicting severe harm on them any problem. I consider it justice.

  The witnesses on the whole, I think are good folks who are being manipulated by the category of sociopath like Rutherford. They are the ones who control. The governing body is a prime example. They have no mercy with their shunning policy, the rules don't apply to them, They have acces to billions of dollars from those that follow but don't give to charity. They have a team of lawyers that understand due process, but afford it to none of their followers. They have policies which kill, like the blood issue and you can'ttouch em in any way! Hate preaching Imams are more close to phychopathic behaviour because of their desire for destruction and domination.

  Just because evil may not be visible at all times does not mean it does not exist. It must be exposed. It must be fought with the same level of ferocity as those that like perpetrating it on others. Especially in a global world!

  The elimination of suffereing from these kinds of people and there parisitic behaviour, must be one of the prime goals of humanity.
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  19

  Coping With Witness Relatives Cult & Authentic Dual Personalities- Hassan

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many of us who have witness relatives have experienced them fading in and out of the cult personality to their real, authentic personality.

  it's like they are a totally different person.

  as steve hassan says in his book, " releasing the bonds ", " it is an eerie experience when, mid-conversation, you sense a different identity has assumed control.

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  Tyrone van leyen

  Of course, even within the witness structure, personalities vary. We don't get to choose the cards we are dealt in life.

  Things could be worse however. Some folks are born in lands that flood, and where food is scarce. Some are born into far more deadly situations as well, such as war torn areas. All such things hinder and effect personality as well. We learn what we live.

  The ideology of a cult such as the witnesses are founded on deviant personalities. The orgs structure as we know it today, was founded on the deviant, sick and controlling personality of a fat drunk, named Rutherford. Therefore we have two types, within the structure of the pecking order he established. The controllers and the controlled.

  Everyone within the structure marches to someones tune, but the higher you go, the more impunity one seems to have. The same could be said of most corporations, and this is because of money and power. The only difference is if you don't like it, you can walk away. Not so, with a corporate cult, because the product they turning out, is the control, of who you are. Thats what all the books and meetings are for. No wonder they offer free literature!

  The problem with establishing who you are, after you leave, is that there is no positive affirmations from family to assist you in redefining yourself. Such is the same with Islam. No way out!

  The real question is...." Who are you, at your core, without the structure? All of us, as I mentioned, in the begining have varying personalities even within the org. This is because of differing Genes, and influences within families. Personality is a very unique and complex thing.

  Are you a Homer Simpson, or a deep thinker? Are you sensitive or insensitive? Are you kind, or deep down, mean spirited or devaint, like Rutherford and Jehovah? Are You confused and lost? Are you arrogant or humble? Are you weak or strong mentally>

  All these questions define your core. Some folks when given pain. learn to be mean bastards, others will learn compassion. Some who know about the phychology of mind control, will use it to manipulate others for their gain, others will use it to help you.

  To me the ultimate question is, are you good at heart, or evil at your core? I don't know about nature versus nurture, but I think some people are just bad seeds, some are just plain stupid.

  If you are just plain evil or stupid, no amount of pain will teach you. I beleive there are a lot of good people within and there are bad ones too. Just like any corporation.

  Therefore I submit, that despite, the effects this cult has infringed upon us, we are who we are, at our core, and religion is a mask that hides it. There is definately a witness personality, but it is man made. Not natural.

  If I were to personify this cult as human, ask yourself, would you like the personlaity of someone, who shuns family members? Would you like someone who wouldn't give there blood it they needed it? Or how about a person who benefits from being in society but wants nothing to do with it, or a person that has nothing but rules?

  How much we let compassion and common sense rule us, determines how much humanity we still have left within us.

  Tyrone
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  4

  Can you

  by John Doe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  touch your nose with your tongue?

  have you ever wished you could?

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  Tyrone van leyen

  Look John, if your getting gravy all over your face from eating poutine, just use a fork. It's an instrument made of metal, that has prongs. If you stab your French fry and then lift it up to your mouth, it should go in nicely. Before you know it, all those brown noser comments will be just fading memories.
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  10

  An anology to explain witness thinking.

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  think of a computer, the hardware is fine, but somebody changed all of the programming so that 2+2=5.

  you go into your spreadsheet and everything looks odd.

  you check it using the calculator function and get the same answers.

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  Tyrone van leyen

  Great thinking! I can't express it the same way, but I know exactly what your all talking about. It helps to have an analogy to veiw abstract concepts. It gives them flesh and blood and makes it more real.

  The interesting thing is, intelligence has nothing to do with it. That is why it is so difficult to undo. Because there are hearts and pain is involved.

  This is a reprogramming site and we are in a human sense, acting as a virus to the watchtower.( If that's the right term to use.

  The family as a unit works together, and has a very strong influence on our feeling/thinking systems. This is the key that gaurds watchtower programming. Fear is another one.

  I beleive that for some, heavy investment, emotionally, can create a point of no return in which case it would be time for new computer as things become more and more incompatible. In the human sense (a new head)
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  9

  Hindu Threat to Christians: Convert or Flee

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the new york times.

  they were ordered to get on their knees and bow before the portrait of a hindu preacher.

  they were told to turn over their bibles, hymnals and the two brightly colored calendar images of christ that hung on their wall.

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  Tyrone van leyen

  Eyeslice. I didn't know that Hindu's had a propensity for forced conversions like the Mulims. I don't know what Hinduism teaches really, but I thought it was very science oriented and in harmony with nature and wisdom. Is this just an extreme sect or does the religion, behave this way in general?

  In some ways it doesn't seem right. The phenomenon of worldwide "do or die" conversion, seems mostly limited to Islam. Could it be perhaps, the Hindus got tired of Islam forcing their religion down their throats, and they have adopted a similar policy for their own cultural preservation, or has Hinduism, reached cult status, like Islam?

  It seems Islam took alot of science from the Indian culture as well, and calls it there own to this day.
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  10

  WHAT WERE RUTHERORD'S TOP 10 MISTAKES?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any ideas?

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  Tyrone van leyen

  Here is another link, of which I'm sure there are better ones, with regard to breifly mentioning in the last paragraph about homosexual and brothel like activities at Bethel which Knorr breifly mentioned himself.

  Just read the last paragraph. I know that there is more however. I read an awful lot on him, but I'm just showing you, I'm not making this stuff up.

  http://www.freeminds.org/history/mystery_years.htm
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  10

  WHAT WERE RUTHERORD'S TOP 10 MISTAKES?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any ideas?

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  Tyrone van leyen

  Hmm, I googled it and it turns out it was discussed here at one time. This is a link I found from Lady Lee to the conversation with Leolai, Vm44 and Cyber Guy, Farkel and in particualr read Voyageurs comments. I'm sure it is written about elsewhere however cuz this is not where I first read it. I will provide another interesting link too. It was a burlesque show in Paris. Semi nudes in 1926.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/77500/1.ashx
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  10

  WHAT WERE RUTHERORD'S TOP 10 MISTAKES?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any ideas?

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  Tyrone van leyen

  I was researching and reading for several months, before I found that juicy tidbit. Unfortunately , this was before I was even a member of the board and I didn't think to keep the link. It doesn't suprise me, that you've never heard it before. I have never seen anyone, print that bit, on this board.

  Since it's a juicy bit, I'll see if I can find it again. But give me some time. I have to track it down. Inicidently, if my memory serves correctly, they did not mention the name of the bar. I'll do my best.
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  16

  Yankee Stadium

  by coffee_black in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i didn't know this.... i was there...i was only 6 years old, but i remember it..... all that sport consequence, and you know what yankee stadium's record crowd 123,707 will forever be?

  a 1958 convention of jehovah's witnesses.. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2008-09-17-yankee-stadium_n.htm.

  coffee .

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  Tyrone van leyen

  Wow Gary, you must be clenching your chair with excitement, just thinking about it.

  I cracked one earlier this evening, about the conditons at those early assemblies, with the mud and rain etc. " Millions now living, will never Dry" You can have that one, if you like.